How I feel medieval fantasy / drama should be done

We all love a medieval fantasy of medieval historical drama, but often the medieval side of things is handed horrendously. This is how I think it should be done.

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The witcher 3, ignoring the combat and some clothes, is quite an aqurated repesentation of late Midle Ages, with the big exception of not using cannons (the first time a cannon was use in Europe was in 1245 in the Siege of Seville bi the defenders). Mount and Blade is also a good representation, Kingdom Come seems that is going to be ultrarealistic. The problem is in cinema and series, were the GoT popularity (not the book, that it is aqurated) have influence a lot. and in anime I sugest Maria the Virgin wicht, putting aside the magic, is quite a good representation of Medieval France at the end of the Hundred Years Wars, the best representation than I wacht actually. In manga I suggest Vinland Saga, it is a almost realistic representation of the Dane conquest of England (the characters are fictional and the are some super streng guys)
Lord Of The Rings is an interesting one to consider in relation to historical accuracy.It is mostly deemed 'medieval' in inspiration but the society of The Shire is more akin to the rustic England of Tolkien's childhood.Travel away from the Shire with Frodo and Co and it is almost as if you are stepping back in time, even though it is the Shire that in many ways has been forgotten by history.How accurate is it to mix eras like this?
While I do think there are some good things about this, here's a response to why Realism isn't always ideal: disease and medieval medicine. After all, would you really want to watch a show where characters often died of something stupid like a bad fever or shitting themselves to death or just because the way they were cured was just idiotic?
To be fair, to portray the battle of Stirling Bridge accurately might have been too expensive and too dangerous to film in a time before good cgi. Having a bridge collapse, toppling hundreds of extras into a river seems like a good way to start a class action lawsuit.
Who else thinks that a Biblical fantasy would be awesome. Like using Medieval Catholic folk lore and beliefs to build a fantasy. I think that it could be an interesting world. Like if you agree.
01:44 I fart on your general direction!
What! Braveheart was a terrible move! It grossly misportrayed King Robert!
Btw in Lord of the rings books, there is no plate armour, only mail armour and padding, well at least for Humans that it. Ignore the hobbit movie and some of the stuff thats stupid like legolas runing up falling bridges because he wasnt even in the Hobbit book. And ignore the stuff that seems really stupid in lotr movie because the books make more sense because everything is explained.
Didn't Tolkien intend lord of the rings to be more similar to the dark ages? As that was his field of knowledge after all.
About the "social behave", I agree partially. Do you think people will love to see women being treated like objects, men that NEVER wash themselves or people being tortured the worst way possible? No! That's why, if you want to put realism in a movie, series, etc. it should be around aesthetics and functionality. What I'm trying to say is we should take what we love the most from the middle age and leave what we consider atrocious (it's also known as the "dark age" for a reason).
"Sword and shield is just as awesome as two handed sword" no it really isn't
I'd disagree that Cloud's sword is the most quintessential over-large sword, that would be Guts' Dragonslayer. It's one of the first instances of a truly oversized sword like that (in the hundreds of pounds range) in fiction, and probably the first truly important/influential one. The rest of the video was pretty good.
I don't think GoT needs to be completely accurate with medieval period because it doesn't take place on earth. It needs to be realistic (which GRRM) for me to be completely immersed in
Whale leather armor (made from the penis of a sperm whale - the only stuff soft enough to use as anything other than plate) is flexible and almost impenetrable. Really good armor.
I understand the point you are making and it's a very valid one. My brother is a historian with a master in history and he always go nuts on how movies have the wrong info on history. However while I understand I see it more in this fashion, no one and I mean no one should go into a movie thinking it's going to be accurate and should be taken as history. It's not the point of movies, they are drama, for entertainment. It's like saying Shakespeare Henry V is worthless because it's not historically accurate. That is not what they are for, they are for entertainment and no one should think that it's real history. Want real pick up a book or go to an history class
Stop saying "okay?" all the time, its super annoying.
Shad reminds me of Brandon Sanderson.
You medieval fans think you have it hard? Look what the whole fantasy genre did to Ancient Persia (yes, I discount 300 as fantasy). SUCH ACCURACY. SUCH REALISM.
Braveheart: Scots wearing kilts at that time. ... Final Fantasy VII: At least put a picture of Cloud there. o_o
How do you feel about The Borgias? I liked that show. @[email protected] I love when people are more shown to be people, not this weird idealized version of "how things were" which isn't how anyone is. -_-
I understand the point you are making and it's a very valid one. My brother is a historian with a master in history and he always go nuts on how movies have the wrong info on history. However while I understand I see it more in this fashion, no one and I mean no one should go into a movie thinking it's going to be accurate and should be taken as history. It's not the point of movies, they are drama, for entertainment. It's like saying Shakespeare Henry V is worthless because it's not historically accurate. That is not what they are for, they are for entertainment and no one should think that it's real history. Want real pick up a book or go to an history class
With movies like Braveheart, there's an issue; At some point, movie makers make a decision on wether to satisfy the common perception of history or to portray the time period as accurately as possible. Forget the sword, William Wallace, just like every other scot of the time, NEVER WORE A KILT. Kilts were developed centuries later. But you can bet that had they portrayed this correctly, 98% of the audience would have done nothing but ask "why aren't they wearing kilts?" for half the movie. Because in public perception, that's what a historic scotsman wore. Same goes for, say, movies about Rome. All those white marble statues that are seen as decoration were painted according to modern research, but they are never portrayed that way. Because that wouldn't fit the common perception of the era.
I agree with Shad. Sure, if it's fantasy, you can break realism, and you can get away with anything because it's "magic". But if you are portraying something that is supposed to be real, at least make it accurate. I especially hate it when they are unrealistic not because of the "rule of cool", but because of mere ignorance.. For example, watch Shad's "Is XY castle realistic?" series. Sure, a video game city is more like the size of a large castle, but I can accept it for practical reasons. Minas Tirith being so high it's completely impractical? That's OK, because it looks really cool. Trebuchets hurling huge rocks and destroying a castle wall in one shot? That kind of defeats the whole purpose of building that castle, which makes it a stretch, but again, it looks cool, so OK. But when the defenses are done completely wrong? That's just because the people who designed them don't know anything about castles. They just made something that is supposed to look cool without having any historical knowledge, and even without doing some research. Another example. Dragons flying by completely defying the laws of physics? That's OK, they are magic. Legolas making impossible jumps? Again, he is an elf and is magical, I can accept it even if it looks weird. But everyone wearing leather armor? What was the problem with gambeson? We rarely even see them in medieval fantasy.
You know what's ironic about that 3E PHB picture of the longsword? The picture is actually accurate. I can clearly see that the handle of the longsword is designed for two hands, possibly explaining the Versatile attribute in 5E. You CAN use it with one hand, but two hands are better. Also, notice the size of the blades in comparison. Dagger and Shortsword have reasonable variation in length, but the jump from short to long seems a bit much. In fact, the length of an arming sword fits perfectly between them.
Berserk does a fair depiction
The last kingdom had some decent acting tho
You know, "based on" does not mean something is 100% historical accurate. It means what it says, based on. Films like Braveheart did not set out to do an accurate account on William Wallace's life; it told a story based on it, but with many, MANY artistic freedoms, for the sake of telling a more interesting story, and making said story more visually appealing. If you want 100% historical accuracy, watch a documentary.
Movies have only so much budget. Sometimes being 100% accurate costs a lot more than just going with the cliches. And most of the the the audience doesn't even know or care that there's a difference. Historical experts and consultants are expensive.
Greatsword girl is not very realistic at all... Looking at the way she stands, a slight breeze could knock her down.
Kingdom of Heaven is fucking abhorrent.
Wait, what was inaccurate about The Last Kingdom?
Lot's of people does not think too much about what they see in movies. They actually know that most of the stories are fictional creations, but, in general, they do expect passivelly that most of the characterizations that they get from hints that they get involving the culture of the time, the common sense of the people represented, the overall "atmosphere" of the thing are somewhat accurate. That's why people do believe that in middle ages EVERYONE was preety much a supersticious bastard who believed that earth was flat and that any phenomena that could not be explained by the knoledge they have at the time was caused by supernatural causes, that people did not washed'emselves properly and was aways dirty, that the inquisition promoved "wich hunts", despite that being a phenomena of modern age, etc, etc, etc.
Have you read or seen Berserk? I ask because here you used Cloud Strife's sword as an example of unrealistically huge swords despite the fact that he does not come from a medieval setting, while anyone familiar with Berserk would have thought of Guts's sword instead. I'd love to hear an analysis of anything related to Berserk. (I recommend the manga and the Golden Arc movie trilogy.)
I have a question about the Rohan armour in LOTR. That's a combination of leather and metal, from what I've found. Is accurate or not?
You're using the term realistic to describe fantasy again, when I think "believable" is a better term.
It is the very reason I refused to see a 3 Musketeer movie that had a Hong Kong fight choreographer (shudders).The "special" "Night Arrows" in Timeline also gave me full facial twitches.
Just saw a trailer for the Dark Tower... shit I think that's the first youtube add I watched all the way through.
I think ASOIAF portrays it fairly enough. The Social Construct is there, The clothing and the sort of people knights actually where. Doing anything for money.
People being misinformed by Hollywood?No, that never happens...
You showed Kingdom of Heaven a couple of times as an example. We're there any specific parts you found unrealistic or downright wrong? I as a person less educated, while not clueless, on medieval attire and weapons found it to be one of the best in concern to accuracy. I'd love to hear your answer. Thanks!
Most iconic big sword? -> Berserk
Regarding how accurate leather armour is, in terms of whether or not it actually saw use, you might want to read up FULLY on gambesons/aketons. Leather gambesons/aketons were often used as under-armour OR even as the ONLY armour an individual had. These two ways of wearing it even spawned two very distinct variations, intended for use as the one or the other. I use both names for it, since it seems varying sources can't agree on whether they're the same thing or separate and with what materials the two were made. Regardless, it certainly was used, although seems things like quilted cloth was far more common. Otherwise, I agree fully to all your other points.
A sword + shield combination might send the wrong image about the skill and bravery of the protagonist. People want the protagonist to be strong, fast, aggressive and dominant. Not on the backpedal trying to slip in a lucky shot of a much better opponent.
Isn't the Tudors more Renaissance then medieval ?
Witches are down right real... have you met my ex girl friend...
You arn't against alternate histories though, are you?
If Vikings actually depicted the... Vikings... accurately, it would be a great show. Accurate clothing, armor, no shieldmaidens, etc. But they depict them as savage leather barbarians just for the fun of it.
The bit about battle of sterling. II think the sterling bridge would be expensive to make. that might have been a thing.
What I hate in fantasy/pseudo-medieval fiction are characters taken straight out of the XXI century.
I have a big problem with the over depiction of the Middle ages as dark, dirty, and ugly.Seriously, that's so inaccurate. Look at the actually depictions.People were wearing colorful clothing. Yes, the peasants too.The cathedrals and castles had a ton of painted statuary and tapestries. It was very colorful. Not dark. Not gritty. Yes, the poor likely lived in sparse dwellings that were darker but not the extent one shows in these Medieval movies.
If this has to be the case, then Sci-Fi must show the accurate areas of real science, but the thing is you'll get some who do and many who don't. While I agree that realism is a must, I'm that someone who thinks, "I don't want reality in fiction, because that down plays many parts of fiction."
Medieval intelligence ( like a medieval cia or something)
Am I the only one that don't think over sized swords are, in any way, cool? I mean, sure, the swords of Warcraft's movie at least try to look balanced enough to be used, but Cloud's sword? or that one from the Bleach's ginger guy? common, that's ridiculous! just pick up a lamp post already it all you care about is size!
What exactly is wrong with the "rule of cool"? I understand the desire to have a film/game/book/whatever based on a historical event to be accurate, but why must medieval fantasy be realistic in terms of physics and portrayal? From what I understand about this, you want medieval fantasy to basically be like how you want historical fiction to be portrayed, every little detail must be a hundred percent accurate, or it doesn't do the medieval era justice. Here's the thing, fiction should never try to be as accurate as possible to real life. Fiction has only one rule: everything in the setting has to make sense only in the setting. Now I can understand your argument if it were a fictional setting that was trying to be like real life, but stuff like Warcraft and Dragon Age can do whatever they want as long as it makes sense within the rules established by the creators. It makes sense in Dragon Age for every one to have plate armor and dual wield big swords, but it doesn't make sense for them to do ninja flips and stuff, or no one uses horses. It should be pretty obvious that Dragon Age is not accurate when compared to reality, but it's fine within its own universe.
Hey Shad, I doubt I'll get a response because this video is over a year old, but on the off chance I do, what are your thoughts on the leather armour Russell Crowe wore in Gladiator.Being what appeared to be just a cuirass made from hardened leather with some extra shoulder pieces, it seemed like it might actually be functional albeit not great armour.
Were leather jerkins common during battle?
Love slayers any way
Guts' Dragonslayer is a more iconic medieval fantasy sword than Cloud's. If anything it is what inspired Cloud's. As far as leather armor in fantasy setting, there's also the argument of enchantments that could provide equal protection to boost the defensive power of the armor. I think the biggest thing fantasy SHOULD cover accurately are the castles.
I thought they had William Wallace's claymore in a museum? wouldn't that be a two handed sword? please correct me if I'm wrong
What about something like Monty Python?
10:10 that's not even cloud xD it's cloud's body with lightning's head...
Yeah. Dark souls would actually lose something if they did that.
Hello again! In my honest opinion when it comes to historical fiction like Braveheart, I think that the historical context of the battle is less important than the liberties taken with Wallace himself, who was not a peasant farmer as the movie portrays him and instead someone of nobility. The reason I don't like this is because it in my mind adds to the narrative that the rich and the poor should be at odds with one another. The filmmakers did not like the idea of a wealthy man fighting and leading an army in a fight for freedom and fictionalised him as a peasant. The reason this bothers me more than the battle is that the battle could have taken place anywhere, but in changing Wallace's personal history it undercuts what makes him a hero in the eyes of the Scottish people (who hold reverence for him to this day) that he was of wealth and fought for freedom among rich and poor alike.
Extralarged swords does not look cool at all... For me they all look stupid and cartoonish
Unfortunately I think the Rule of Cool is interpreted differently by different audiences.
Kingdom of Heaven is absolute trash. Check History Buff's review. It's easy to rip on Braveheart, rightfully, but Kingdom of Heaven is equally historically inaccurate.
You cant be not embraced if you dont know how it could be made better.
The historical inaccuracies that bother me the most is the absolutely inaccurate portrayal of formation combat. You get a great movie like Gladiator, but when the Roman legions are about to fight the Gauls, the Romans are in formation, the Gauls charge and then... The Romans break ranks and charge as well, general melee ensues. The Romans did not conqueror their empire by virtue of being better at general melee, what made them so utterly terrifying is that they did NOT fight that way. They stayed in formation, they fought as a unit without any opponent able to attack their sides or rear. Moreover they were so well organized and trained that they would rotate their fighters from the front of the line every minute or so. Those fighters would move to the rear where any cuts were immediately bandaged, they could get water and rest up for their next turn on the front five to ten minutes away. Their front line was always rested. The examples of Hollywood utterly mangling this sort of thing are SO replet and SO frustrating.
If people could make unrealistic always be insanely unrealistic (like cloud's buster sword) and things that are realistic accurate that would be great.
I dont think people gives a shit does Aragorn wear gambeson or leather armor? It has no actual effect on the world it is happening.
I thought William Wallace used a Claymoreand I am Scottish.I remember my Grandma McLean telling me bedtime story's like story's about William and that sort of stuff.
"Do you have anything that says 'Daddy loves leather'?"(Dr. Tobias Fugue)
I'm so sick of armor being treated like it's made out of paper. Oh full plate and chainmail? Let me just thrust my sword through your chest with little effort.
Leather armor looks shit, gambeson is awesome
Slayers and Dragon's Dogma in one video? But it's not even my birthday. Good video. I've been wondering about something similar for a long time. Often in medieval dramas (or any kind of historical drama), they can seem to resist the temptation to alter stuff that doesn't need altering. Like with your example in Braveheart. Taking liberties for the sake of drama or telling a better story is one thing, but 50+% of the time, what really happened is much more interesting or cool than whatever they substituted. *coughMicahelBaycoughPearlHarborcough*
How much of medieval realism does "Song of Ice and Fire" books have? Not the TV series, never watched them.
Unfortunately most people really don't give a shit about realism.
I take it you don't like slayers then lol
Yeah i agree that medieval fantasy should not be completely accurate. i am reading a fantasy novel series at the moment, wherethe setting is like the Roman times(one big empire and everything else is tribes and city states), but it has a modern-like economy, characters use modern day terms and they also have explosives and bombs. how awesome is that? roman legionaries throwing bombs
As far brave heart on the dnd extras they said the did not have the money to build the bridge that said I hate the movie for its massive inaccuracies
How much medieval accuracy Dark Souls series have?
Ok i will weekipeedier it nice accent XD
You're off the deep end here when it comes to medieval fantasy because it's a fantasy.
I was totally immersed in this video, and then your hand went "behind the TV". That totally slapped me out of it. Half a dangling thumb up.
So I've been trying to make a fantasy world, and I had this idea where people found it completely revolting to try and stop a sword with a sword but the interesting idea was trashed quickly because of its ridiculousness, but I still want to keep the creation of shield men, people who would jump in front of a blow and stop it with their massive two shields. Any idea or way they could be keeped, perhaps a "super" weapon or just army formations that would justify their existence?
Didn't the Romans wear leather armor? :3 OK OK that's not mideval but they still used hardened leather, didn't they?
Fuck man, the more I watch....the more I can say you are my hero!!!I love history, as well, and YOU are a hero historian who deserves just as much prestige and as any warrior on any battlefield
I don't understand, I want medieval esque things in my novel. but since it's fiction it never happened so why do I need a more realistic portrayal if I'm building a world where it's complete fiction? like the story and characters creatures and people's names. I want my own world I don't want ppl to compare it to a time that actually existed can someone help me out. do I need to know exactly how things were in medieval times even though it's my world?
In the end of the day, it really just comes down to how pretentious a person is. How much that would affect them in digesting any media, or really life in general.
How accurate is the holy grail jk
Those feminism sceans in the hobbit movie ugh
The last Kingdom > Game of Thrones
I'm doing this balance also for a world it is colonial fantasy though. I originally intended it based around 1650 without any magic (I later added some weak magic but nothing what would disrupt the 'realistic image' of the world). I'm kinda drawn to merging fantasy with more developed time periods (medieval fantasy is still awsome though and I have done some of that as well, once with a devoloping timeline into modernity (twice)). I also agree that this degree of realism generally makes for a solid and interesting product I would also argue that every degree of realism can be awesome if pulled of in the right way. the most extreme I tried myself on was on the realism level of something like adventure time including a general atmosphere and storyline more akin to something like a mix of GoT and Skyrim ,I'm not claiming I did a great job on it, but it was a very interesting idea to develop and I would suppose a more talented writer than me could pull of something really awesome on that level of realism. What I find more important is consistency, a world in my opinion should be governed by laws (I think shadiversity made a similar point once too), those laws can be quite out of the box screwing even the last bit of realism if the writer desires so but once established they should be followed.
I disagree with you to some extent, at least regarding fantasy. Internally consistent and believable? Yes. historically accurate or authentic? No. It depends on what we talk about of course. I like realistic equipment and buildings as much as the next, but too often I see fellow "nerds" attack various fantasy that e.g. echoes more modern values of equality as "unrealistic" or "unbelievable" as if dragons are okay, but changing social structures to not replicate antiquated morals are "just too out there".
If it's medieval epic fantasy like Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings etc. can't be historically or scientifically inaccurate, because they don't exist in our world, and abide by completely different rules. There are exceptions to this rule, like how no matter what world you're in, if you're a normal human and there's nothing protecting your body from a sword strike, you're gonna die, but generally, most things such as inaccurate portrayals of armor for the respective society which the fantasy world takes inspiration from, or things breaking the laws of physics and so forth, can be disregarded because it is a completely different world. Granted, this is all personal opinion, and the level of suspension of disbelief someone has is completely relative to the person, and not some static constant, so it's not as though I can say "this is silly because it doesn't make any sense" just as I can't say "it's a fantasy world, realism doesn't matter" and speak objectively. Though as far as historical fiction, I agree, there should be a good deal of realism, though that also all depends on the style of the film; I wouldn't expect a movie like 300 to be an accurate portrayal of the actual battle, but something which is so clearly shooting for realism, keeping things accurate I think is important.
Somebody probably already has said this before me, but neither Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit are suposed tô be medieval... it's, as Tolkien used to say, a "secondary world" (sorry for my bad English...)
If you don't find the fantasy armor or weapon historical, you should at least find it handy.
I know it's set in the early 1600's instead of the medieval period, but what's your feeling on the novel and miniseries Shogun? Much of the basic story is based in history, but how right did James Clavell and the TV filmmakers get it?

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How I feel medieval fantasy / drama should be done